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huskereuroca |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2015 at
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This post in NO way is meant to undermine the creativity, talent and patients of our course creators. Without them we wouldn't have the outstanding courses to test ourselves.
One thing has always been on my mind though. I was curious what constetutes a fantasy vs a real course? I have always hesitated to download a fantasy course because I was used to the EA fantasy courses that for the most part were unrealistic and from my point of view unplayable.
Somewhere I read that if you don't have the real elevation information it should be classified as a fantasy course. If that is true it would, IMO, leave a lot of courses in the fantasy category when they are based on a real course.
So the question remains How is the determination made? Do we need to DL each course and find out for ourselves whether it is realistic or not? |
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jhdabrick |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2015 at
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| I think that most of the course recreators do their best to make the courses as realistic as course architect program will allow. In those cases, I think the course should be listed as real. I do think that some of the fantasy courses would be better described as fictional, because they look real and play real, and you could easily see yourself walking those fairways. |
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argon |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2015 at
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| "I think that most of the course recreators do their best to make the courses as realistic as course architect program will allow. In those cases, I think the course should be listed as real. I do think that some of the fantasy courses would be better described as fictional, because they look real and play real, and you could easily see yourself walking those fairways." |
I think there is a case for Fantasy course and Extreme Fantasy, I would put for example Rocks&Rolls or Area 551 as Extreme Fantasy. |
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Jimbo63 |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2015 at
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| edited by: Jimbo63 on
Sunday, August 23, 2015 at
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| Some of my fantasy courses are real layouts of actual courses, but because I did not trust the height info I classed them as fantasy (an example of this is Kauri Cliffs, a New Zealand course). Sometimes difficult to decide how to class a course when you only have 2 choices. |
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huskereuroca |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2015 at
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From what I have seen, which isn't a lot due to my hesitancy, I agree that two classifications just isn't enough. How about likeness, similar or comparable? It just seems to me that fantasy should be kept for just that purpose, fantasy. Real courses should be kept for true courses that have all the elevations and details that go with that connotation.
Thoughts! |
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Bobby Bolin |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2015 at
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| You could always download the course, try it out, and classify it the way you would like to. No two people will classify courses the same, so it's really up to you to decide. |
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dawg8 |
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| Posted: Monday, August 24, 2015 at
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| Forgive me, but I forget who the desiginer is. But a course that I belive is said to be a fantasy course is "Bleeding Sands". For me it is one of the VERY best designed course one could download. If it is not a real course someone needs to build it somewhere, seriously. Just my 2 cents kind of off topic, just wanted to say what a great design it is. I agree with some of the above post...need more classifications than Fantasy or Real. But hey this is a great site great Admin and desingers. That's enough rambling...later. |
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Gordo |
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| Posted: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 at
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| I thought it was simply that a real course actually existed and a fantasy did not. |
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huskereuroca |
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| Posted: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 at
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| As far as I understand if you don't have the correct elevations, mounding, contours and plant life it would just be a rendition and therefore a fantasy course. |
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Munroco |
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| Posted: Saturday, August 29, 2015 at
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| edited by: Munroco on
Saturday, August 29, 2015 at
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Well thanks Dawg, Bleeding Sands was one of mine.
For me, real courses meant researching layouts, studying pics, using terrain data (if available) and if I was lucky getting someone to make objects for me like Clubhouses, huts etc.
Real courses were a challenge, but fantasy courses (for me at least) were far more fun to make. I certainly tried to make them look real and many of the holes on them were inspired by real holes that I''d played or seen on TV. Even on a fantasy course realism for me was very important.
For a bit of fun, I used the exact same ground plot I used to make Carnoustie, changed the vegetation to look tropical, and put in a few lakes and buildings that didn''t affect play but made it look completely different. One or two people noticed but I think the majority didn''t, so if anyone wants to play a real/fantasy hybrid try Carnoustie 2010/Cote Sunari (Shameless plug)
Huskereuroca, if these are the criteria to determine whether a coarse is "real" or not, then there is not a single course on this or any other site that could be called real. It is quite simply impossible with the tools available.
Cheers
Neil |
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| From Carnoustie, the REAL home of golf. |
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huskereuroca |
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| Posted: Saturday, August 29, 2015 at
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[QUOTE=Munroco]Well thanks Dawg, Bleeding Sands was one of mine.
For me, real courses meant researching layouts, studying pics, using terrain data (if available) and if I was lucky getting someone to make objects for me like Clubhouses, huts etc.
Huskereuroca, if these are the criteria to determine whether a coarse is "real" or not, then there is not a single course on this or any other site that could be called real. It is quite simply impossible with the tools available.
Neil - Not sure those are the criteria since no one has said on here what they really are. What I am saying is just what I have read. As stated above I agree it is a shame that we don't have more categories to choose from than just two because I feel that we have a lot of courses that cross over to real when they aren't and viceversa. In any case there are a lot of designers that are being pigeon holed into one or the other categories when they shouldn't be. There is some awesome work going on out there and, again, it is a shame that there are only two categories. |
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Gordo |
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| Posted: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at
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I agree... something like:
Actual (emulates the actual course almost to a tee)
Realistic (not a real course, but appears as if one)
Fictional (not a real course, and is somewhat arcade-like)
Fantasy (not a real course, total unrealistic) |
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huskereuroca |
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| Posted: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at
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| I like that!!! So how would one get something of that nature to be a reality instead of just a thought for discussion? |
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dawg8 |
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| Posted: Thursday, September 3, 2015 at
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| edited by: dawg8 on
Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at
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Hi Neil
Sorry I forgot that you designed "Bleeding Sands" but soon as I saw your post. I remembered. I''m almost sure I''v downloaded all of Neil Monroe''s/Monroco''s course''s. You and Tee Off Golf and MSR Golf do superior work. And yes the two courses you mentioned in your post, I have...lol. Keep em coming sir. THANKS.. oops for got to add BULLPUPP2 to the list of great designers. em sure I missed others... |
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BULLPUPP2 |
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| Posted: Saturday, September 5, 2015 at
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Neil said it well.
Many designers use the proper DEM elevations but they are just very basic slopes of the lay of the land. Last couple years the USGS, where we go elevations and overhead images has changed. They no longer line up at all and are hundeds of yards off. That is why I no longer do real courses.
As said a proper real course takes a lot of time, research, and attention to detail. I will normally have over 100 hours into one. I will usually do famous courses that have lots of pics and info available. IMO pics are a must to get the slopes, green complexes, bunker, planting etc as correct as I can. Bing with Birds Eye View is a great tool for planting location and types of trees native to that area. I also make textures and panos to match the area.
I now enjoy making "Fantasy" courses that are mostly realistic. I try to make each hole unique and fun to play. I like to make the player think and have many risk/reward holes. |
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Gordo |
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| Posted: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at
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| edited by: Gordo on
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| It definitely shows in your courses Bullpupp...they''re awesome. |
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BULLPUPP2 |
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| Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2015 at
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| Plenty of good designers out there. Just sayin that if good info and pics are not available its not possible to make a realistic real course |
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